Quest for a Rig

[Etiam]

Alright. I've been kinda mentioning this here and there for a bit, so it seems reasonable to open this up a little more formally.

I'm in the market for a 100 (or 120) watt tube amp head and a corresponding 4x12 half-stack.

Things I want:

Amp defined as 'high-gain' (i.e. I don't want to rely on a pedal to give me thick and heavy enough distortion)
Multiple channels
Extremely thick gain that is warm and tight without being boxy (like a Mesa)
Some built in effects (reverb, noise gate) might be nice
A dynamic and clear clean tone
Reliability


Things I don't want:

Solid state
Dumb aesthetic (i.e. Krank and their 'kleen' foolishness)
Celestion V30s in the cabinet

So far, I'm thinking about amps like:

Genz Benz El Diablo
Hughes & Kettner Duo-Tone
Egnater Tourmaster
Laney VH100R
Engl Powerball

I've considered and done away with Krank (aforementioned foolishness and bad vibes), Madison (bad customer service and cheap parts), Mesa (don't like the ultra-high gain boxiness), Peavey (ubiquitous and muddled), and some other lesser known brands.

From the recording I've done so far (on a friend's Powerball), folks have said it reminds them a bit of Agalloch or Insomnium's matching of heavy, but not ultra low chug riffing, with a sometimes folksy vibe. On the other hand, it'll also be used for soul-crushing doom metal.

So there. All comments welcome. Probably maybe three replies to this thread, I'm thinking...


EDIT: Diezel and their $4000 price tags can sod off.

[AcidDreams]

here's one reply. I wish I knew how to help you.

[Etiam]

Har. Thanks. Sort of what I expected.

I'm leaning away from the H&K that I tried over the weekend, but the guy is still trying to reel me in with offers of new tubes and different speakers. Presently I'm intrigued by the Tourmaster, but apparently their quality control isn't super. Recommendations for comparable stuff include the Egnater-designed TOL 100 or the still-in-production Rocktron Vendetta.

Also didn't even think about Randall at all, but the vibe I get from them is comparable to Krank. Any opinions on this?

[Aum Shinrikyo]

Randalls are boxy sounding like Mesas and whatnot.

My favorite sounding high-gain amp is the Bogner Uberschall. I'm not a huge fan of the high-gain super metal sounding amps, but the Uberschall is fantastic. I don't know about it's clean channel, but I'm sure it sounds warm and delightful. The only band I can think of off the top of my head that used an Uberschall was Mare, but I know the Uberschall is capable of more "metal" tones as well. Hence the Uber in the name. The matching cabinet is loaded with a combination of v30's and G12T75's (celestion's best speaker, imo).

http://www.bogneramplification.com/cust ... llInfo.php

If you don't want the matching cabinet, I'd suggest checking out Avatar cabinets. They're a small company near Spokane, WA that makes some nice stuff. You can choose whatever speakers you want loaded in the cab. They even sell "broken in" celestions, that they call Greenbacks. They sound pretty damn nice.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/

[Etiam]

Yeah, I've been reading about that Ueberschall a lot more recently. I dig the attack from a lot of those Bogners, but was wanting more bottom end, and the Ueberschall really seems to deliver in that respect. The cabinet seems like a perfect match, too. Those G12T75's, the more I read about them, seem like the best kind of speakers for what I want.

Only concerns:

Allegedly, although the bottom end is mega intense, it's kinda flabby. Nice for doom or something, but I want something that's dexterous.

Clean channel is largely overlooked.

[Radish]

I've never tried this brand but i was interested in this tube amp they offer.
If you see them at a guitar shop check it out.

I think having seperate gain, eq, and volume for each channel is definetely a plus for a tube head

I've heard they are built like fucking tanks.

http://traynoramps.com/products.asp?id= ... =60&type=1

[Aum Shinrikyo]

Yeah, I've been reading about that Ueberschall a lot more recently. I dig the attack from a lot of those Bogners, but was wanting more bottom end, and the Ueberschall really seems to deliver in that respect. The cabinet seems like a perfect match, too. Those G12T75's, the more I read about them, seem like the best kind of speakers for what I want.

Only concerns:

Allegedly, although the bottom end is mega intense, it's kinda flabby. Nice for doom or something, but I want something that's dexterous.

Clean channel is largely overlooked.

Wanting a perfect clean channel from a high-gain head is having a cake and eating it too, in some ways.

Maybe you should try taking all your ideas over to Verellen. I have a buddy who is doing that because of a similar problem. His band uses all types of shitfucked tunings, and he tunes extremely low, using the heaviest strings he can find, etc. But he wants a tight attack from his amp, like what a mesa-boogie triple rectifier would have. But with his being tuned so low he needs something with warmth, depth, and clarity, and a high wattage to push those low frequencies, like a bass amp. Verellen is building him something that lies inbetween a mesa-boogie triple rectifier and an Orange bass head.

His custom work will cost you around the same price as one of those high-end $2000 boutique amps.

[Etiam]

Interesting suggestion. I'll look into it. Friend of mine suggested doing something custom, too, but through a contact he has that would cost significantly less. I'll dig into both options.

I know that having both great clean and distortion is not really going to happen, so I suppose I'm just looking for an A - distortion and a B + clean, instead of an A+ distortion and C-grade clean. Looking at the Ueberschall is becoming less interesting as I see in practically all of the literature how they barely even mention the clean channel.

I do like the German sound, though, so maybe it's time to check out a Framus.

I've listened to some Traynors and wasn't blown away. I'll give them another shot.

[Etiam]

Speaking of Framus, serendipity strikes.

A Cobra just got listed on Craigslist hereabouts for 1390, with footswitch. Considering making the trek to check it out, though I'm being warned against its "boxiness".

[Aum Shinrikyo]

People poop their pants over the Framus Cobra, check it out.

[Etiam]

Yeah, I'm headed down to see it today. Bringing a producer friend and three pairs of boxers. If I could get this thing for around $1250-1300, I'd have to cut my cab budget down a bit, but would be plenty fine in doing so, considering the quality these amps reportedly offer.

Apparently the guy says this has just 'too much growl' for him.

Rawk.

[Etiam]

Alright, that was underwhelming.

Yes, it was massively potent. But the distortion was just kinda gravely with out tube warmth or midrange punch. Not too impressed, especially at that price.

On the way back, at a friend's suggestion, I stopped at a Guitar Center and Sam Ash to play some more amps. These included:

Krankenstein - Unremarkable crap
Krank Evolution 1 - Nearly as meh
Peavey 6505+ - Where are the harmonics on this amp? Otherwise, solid.
Peavey JSX - Pretty spiffin'. Very zippy and nicely flexible without being excessive. Good tones, but a bit too American for my taste.
Hughes & Kettner Tube 100 - Had never heard of this before. It looks kind of like their solid state line, to be honest, which isn't saying much at all, but the sound of this was really exceptional. Gave me the gain that the Duotone hadn't achieved. I'm reading that this is quite similar in its tonal qualities to the Triamp (albeit less flashy or tweakable) which is just what I'd hoped for. Now I just have to find one of those for less than $1500....

Still want to mess around more with Engls and Laneys, but the H&K will be really tough to beat.

[Etiam]

Now I just have to find one of those for less than $1500....

Holy hell, I did it.

It's not all wrapped up yet, but I think I've found a MK II H&K Triamp for an absurdly low price that works entirely with my budget. Would have to ship it, which is a minus, and I still have never played the amp, but at the price I'd pay, it's irresistible.

Fingers crossed that this goes through. I'll find out within the week.

EDIT: STill would need a cabinet, though. Got a couple local H&K options that have either V30's or G12Ms (Greenbacks). Any opinions on these, versus each other, or the G12T-75s?

[Aum Shinrikyo]

whatever > v30's

I really do prefer G12t75's though. Celestion has a section on their website that lets you hear the difference between their speakers. I'd suggest checking it out.

http://professional.celestion.com/guita ... /index.asp

[Etiam]

Kinda my feeling as well, I am thinking. We shall see.

I've been reading about Eminence, as well, whom I'd usually consider as the bass speaker folks. Evidently their Governor speaker is like a V30, minus the bad parts.

[Etiam]

So, I did it.

I've actually had the amp for a couple of weeks, but some of the tubes were crushed in the shipment, so the thing literally sat there staring at me for at least a fortnight before they sent me new tubes (matched quartet of Mullard EL-34, so-called "The Master Valve", which, in this German amp, is too classic). Anyway, that just gave me lots of tie to clean it. Still a bit of work to be done, but aside from the right neon light being out and a knob on the back needing to be reglued, nothing is wrong with it in the least.

And, by the way, the amp is:



The Hughes & Kettner Mark II Triamp. Billed as "The ultimate tube head". Each of the three channels has two modes, essentially making this a six channel amplifier. 100 watts. Superlative cleans to dynamic blues to better-than-Marshall Marshall classic crunch to ultra-tight and incredibly well-defined high gain distortion that retains a lot of pick attack and crackles violently. Takes the flexibility of a Mesa and fuses it with German amp (i.e Engl, Framus, Bogner) clarity and spank, minus the boxy and ubiquitous crunch of the former and the sometimes too-clinical coldness of the latter. Pretty much, I think it's the best possible amp I could have found, for my needs.

The signature model of this is for Alex Lifeson, of Rush. For him, they didn't change any of the circuitry--they just changed the color of the neon and the tolex covering. In short, there wasn't much to improve upon, internally.

New, this is 3.5K. Used, it is usually 2K. Mine was 1299. Came with a 7-button footswitch, built-in direct out, half-power switch, and is midi-compatible. This has been the year of acquisitions: three gear items in a row purchased for at least 40% below true market value.

Oh. And the H&K glows blue. So, like every other tool with one of these, I had to take a picture of it with the lights out.

Still need a matching cabinet, but those can be had for around $500, and in the meantime I've got a Marshall 1960A, which seems to do the job nicely so far.

I've tested this some in the studio and it sounds phenomenal. Not sure that I'll use it too much, since I've already started with a Powerball, but will try to sneak this in during some clean passages or on the doom track.

Mmmmmmmmm.

[Etiam]

You guys suck.

Meanwhile, this is in the shop (Chicago Guitar and Amplifier, who apparently do some work with Emperor Cabinets) getting biased on Guitar Center's money. The 3B channel is also kinda sketchy--halved output compared to other channels--but that shouldn't be more than a funky preamp tube. Going to use this to record in a few weeks and am looking forward to it.

[Aum Shinrikyo]

How did it turn out for you? That sounds like a bit too many options for me, but if you got all that for 1300, you're sitting quite pretty!

[Etiam]

Why, thanks for asking.

It turned out to be more of a hassle than I'd anticipated. What started with some broken tubes turned into some grand episode of reimbursement for labor at approved locations and all kinds of hoops to jump through after talking to just about every 'bro' in West Palm Beach. However, I did indeed end up getting it for that price, just picked it back up from the shop a couple days ago, and am entirely satisfied. I'll need to get a few outboard effects for it--no built-in reverb or noise gate--but the actual tone of the thing is devastating. Really dynamic as well, with a very good clean channel and flexible overdrive.

The next step is to find the best cabinet for it. As mentioned elsewhere, I did a kind of clinical test in the studio with some different mikes on a couple different cabinets--Celestion G12T75 vs Jensen something or anothers--and hope to do some more, specifically against the much-lauded V30. I did have a chance to compare the 75s to V30s through a Dual Recto, but I don't much like that head's ultra-gain channel and the test volume wasn't high enough. That being said, I think the V30 lives up to some of the notions I'd had about it: passes a lot of high end at a low volume and a good amount of bass, too, so that it sounds pretty aggressive, but doesn't have as much midrange character or smoothness as the 75s.

So, that's that.

The very same Guitar Center from which I bought my amp has an H&K 412 Custom Class cabinet with 75s in it that looks brand new and costs $499. These things sell for $1699 new. But I'm going to hold off.

For now.